What really happened with the “Epstein Files Phase 1” binder controversy at the White House? Glenn lays out 5 theories that could explain why the full files weren’t released: Was Trump or someone in the administration protecting friends who were on the list? Did Deep State agents in the FBI and SDNY actively withhold the documents, as Attorney General Pam Bond claimed? Is the Trump administration using this controversy to gather support for mass firings at the FBI and SDNY? Was it just a combination of incompetence and people promising too much on Fox News? Or is the Epstein List conspiracy theory just that: a conspiracy theory that we already have the answers to? Glenn, Stu, and Jason Buttrill discuss …
Transcript
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Jason Buttrill, head of research is in here. Stu Burguiere, our -- our executive producer with the radio program. And we've -- I mean, I talked until I was blue in the face today. Outlining treason. Because I think, if what is being told is happening in the southern district of New York, with the FBI. That is treason! And it should be treated as that. Constitutionally, listen to that case.
You can hear it, if you missed it. Grab the podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts today. So we are talking about the options.
The different options.
STU: What could explain this?
GLENN: That could explain what happened yesterday. So let's start -- the first one was...
STU: The first of three were, there -- Trump is just protecting friends on his list, or someone --
GLENN: I will put a zero on that one.
STU: Then you have the FBI is withholding documents, essentially the Pam Bondi story here is true. Okay?
They're withholding documents. There is really crazy stuff out there. The FBI is withholding it. That's why you don't have it.
Three would be your -- I mean, this is maybe the most -- you're speculative on this one.
That this is sort of a -- a -- a plan.
GLENN: A useful.
No.
A useful -- what was it? Never let a tragedy or crisis go to waste.
STU: Crisis go to waste. Right?
GLENN: This is a crisis that is useful.
STU: Yeah. And they're saying, what we're going to do with that information. Is use it a way we could clean out that office, in way that we couldn't necessarily get away with, if they weren't hiding Epstein documents.
GLENN: Correct.
JAMES: Just a blanket, the FBI is withholding documents, doesn't make sense with Kash Patel as the director. Because he's already seen. If he's gone off these statements. He already has seen it. He knows it. And he's vowed to release it. That has to be knocked off.
GLENN: But if they hold it, they may have moved his access to the information. They may have quartered it in New York.
JAMES: Yeah. And I think that kind of goes towards point three. Because if they know how New York is going to respond on this, that field office. They're just pushing them into the corner to react. How they know they are going to react.
GLENN: Correct. Correct. Correct.
STU: Let me give you a couple of others. And these may be uncomfortable for our side. But I think they should be considered here. Okay? A common, if -- possibility number four, a combination of incompetence, and a bunch of people in really high-profile roles, who say a lot of things on podcasts and Fox news, that sound good on podcasts and Fox news. But don't necessarily have the backing of the facts.
GLENN: Okay. First of all, incompetence. I've not seen this administration act incompetently. So it would be the first act of incompetence that I have seen, I think of any note, in the first, you know, whatever. Forty days.
STU: There's bits and pieces. Generally speaking.
GLENN: There's nothing.
This is a major problem, if -- if that was true.
STU: But -- go ahead.
GLENN: However, on that.
I -- I don't know anybody in this administration, that is part of this. That would be Kash Patel. J.D. Vance.
STU: Pam Bondi.
GLENN: President. And Pam Bondi. The only one that I can't vouch for, that would write -- would write checks with their mouth.
STU: Oh.
GLENN: You know what I mean? Can't be cashed.
Is Pam Bondi. Only because I don't know her. Doesn't mean she's not like that. I just don't know her.
STU: I'm not saying I necessarily think this is the end of the story. Let me just push back on that gently. Kash Patel also said on day one, he was going to close the FBI office and turn it into a museum for the Deep State. As far as I know, it's not occurred. That's a Donald Trump thing.
STU: And because you're saying it's a Donald Trump thing, I must also bring up that Donald Trump also says a lot of things. And he says things that sound great on podcast, and sometimes they're negotiation tactics or whatever. But he often does that.
There's a lot of overpromising, from some of the people he has put in these positions. That is, I think inarguable.
GLENN: That would leave me to believe that it's option three. That there is a method behind the madness. When Donald Trump says those crazy things, usually because it's negotiating or positioning something you don't understand.
And that's what number three is.
This is a well-executed op, that is made for people to think one thing, but it's actually setting up -- it's like his negotiation for trade barriers.
STU: Yeah. Yeah. That's possible. Right?
What's interesting, I think. And you point out the incompetence. To pause on that for a second.
With the exception of number three, which to remind people, is this sort of idea.
Using this as a precursor to go into the Deep State.
GLENN: A useful crisis.
STU: Yes. Every other option has to have incompetence included in it because of the way they sold it.
She was on TV the night before, saying it was going to be this dramatic thing. And then the next day, she said, they didn't send me the documents. That's a terrible way to talk about that publicly.
At the very least it's bad messaging. And bad --
GLENN: Correct. And that is why I hesitate on any of this.
STU: Uh-huh.
GLENN: Because -- and I specifically say, I would think the weak link here would be Pam. A, because I don't know her. But, B, I saw that live.
I saw her say that live. And it felt weird. I'm like, that's weird.
STU: Yeah.
GLENN: You know what I mean?
STU: She didn't seem all that comfortable saying it. To me, looking at her. She didn't feel like, I know exactly what's coming here.
It felt like it was a big promise.
It was the opposite of what you have told me, seven million times. Never overpromise and underdeliver. You always underpromise and overdeliver.
GLENN: You never do what she just did.
STU: Right! Because it gets people pissed off. So, again, I don't know if that's true. But that needs to be at least the discussion here.
JAMES: She immediately deflected. They immediately deflected because they knew there was going to be outrage on this, because it's one of our main issues on the base is the Epstein files.
GLENN: Yes.
JAMES: She immediately directed all that rage towards one specific point, New York.
STU: Benefit.
JAMES: There's only two reasons to do that. One, to deflect.
STU: To deflect. Which would work with the one that I described.
JAMES: Two, to set off point three.
STU: True.
GLENN: And I think, I'm hoping, because I don't know Pam. But I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt. I mean, she was the attorney general with Florida, with Ron DeSantis. I mean, he's not an idiot when it comes to law.
He won't have an idiot attorney general. But I -- can I -- I tend to think it's number three.
STU: Anyway, can I give you one more. I have one more here.
What if
GLENN: What if.
STU: Just throwing this out here.
GLENN: All right.
STU: What if the truth is, that not every famous person we know has sex with children.
I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility.
What if the Jeffrey Epstein story is a wide-ranging conspiracy of Jeffrey Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, Prince Andrew, several others. Doing all sorts of terrible things. But maybe we kind of know all of it already. Maybe there isn't that much left for us to uncover. And they're not -- we're not going to find.
GLENN: Not with 250 victims.
STU: I --
JAMES: Not with the CIA director going to meet him twice. I think that's kind of a big thing as well.
GLENN: I just --
STU: It's possible. So you don't think there's any -- because we knew about what?
70 victims, or so?
That just in the initial 2018 reporting.
So 250 is a high number. But it's not absolutely absurd. That that --
GLENN: All we heard is what he did.
We have not necessarily heard what others have done.
And we --
STU: But we have heard a lot of that. We have heard a lot --
GLENN: Why haven't they been prosecuted then?
STU: For example. Some people have been accused. And they've withdrawn their accusations. Think of how central, to bring up a friend of the program.
Who was on here, often.
Alan Dershowitz was on this case.
He was one of these guys who did all these things according to the accusations.
Then the girl. The woman now, who came out -- who accused him all this time. Said, maybe it wasn't him.
Like, maybe it -- maybe a lot of these people that were tied into this. Had connections with him.
But really, we don't have videos of them having sex with 14-year-olds. Maybe that's not the reality.
GLENN: You know what? I find that more implausible, and this is saying something!
STU: Yeah. Yeah.
GLENN: Because this is one that really just bothers me like crazy.
I find that more implausible, than we just didn't go to the moon.
JAMES: What! Wow!
GLENN: I think we just didn't go to the moon is more likely than that one.
STU: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Come on! We have a ton of people are known. We know. With incredible, line by line detail.
What that man did, in multiple different areas. We know a lot about this case.
And the fact that we have not uncovered that Bill Gates did it.
You know --
GLENN: Where is anyone that went to jail, other than those two?
STU: I mean, I would have to go back and look at it. I don't think there's been many. Not a lot of high profile people. That's what I'm saying.
Maybe -- maybe just maybe. I know --
GLENN: We staged the moon landing.
STU: I know. Maybe.
Like, I -- and this is, by the way, the best option for all of us. I will point out. The best option for all of us.
GLENN: I did. When you said it, I said, immediately, moon landing.
And then I thought to myself, wow. Am I that jaded. That I dismissed the happy option?
As no way!
JAMES: Okay.
STU: Hold on. Let me finish my point, real quick. Real quick. Maybe it's possible that, you know, wanting to -- the desire to have sex with underage children is a little bit more rare than we believed.
And that would be great information.
Maybe not every rich and powerful person is doing this.
And I know there's a lot invested in that theory.
But to just go off of this for just a second.
We have had multiple politicians.
GLENN: Go ahead. Go ahead.
STU: Multiple sides.
By the way, as we've been told. And talked about, many of our people believe.
That Donald Trump, the ultimate truth teller on this stuff. Right?
GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
STU: And he's been president twice through this period. And every time we're promised it. They can't come up with it. So it could be that there's some mass conspiracy hiding it. Or maybe. Just maybe. It's not there in the way that we believe it is. Maybe just maybe. It's a little bit less sexy, and that's a weird word to use there.
Salacious, I suppose.
GLENN: Yeah, that would be great.
STU: It would be.
GLENN: It would be great.
STU: Again, I think it should be discussed. I'm not saying this, necessarily.
GLENN: Well, let's -- let's. You know what, let's get on to the moon landing set, and we can talk about it.
JAMES: I've not seen it floated around a lot, and especially yesterday on X. I spent years doing intelligence. Actual intelligence operations. I'm going to go on full-on conspiracy theory here. I've seen how misinformation. Disinformation works.
I was warning people, that once information started coming out. Listing random names. Like, oh, my God.
Let's tie every single name to Epstein. That was a big op.
She was not involved. Oh, look.
Rihanna was at a party. She was on the list. Well, no. She's not. She could be eventually. I don't know. She's not on the list. Just because she was there. Some random person was there.
STU: Right.
GLENN: And just because you were invited there. Just because you flew on his plane.
Does not mean that you were part of that.
STU: Right.
GLENN: However, the way he made that kind of into his bread and butter, leads me to believe there are many more people involved.
JAMES: It might have been nap that is a big distraction. That is to blow it up to make it look like it's a vast right-wing conspiracy. To hide the fact what was going on. What was going on?
I don't know. But we know that members of the royal family were involved. We know. I'll say this again. That the CIA director!
At least twice! Went to meet with Jeffrey Epstein. He does not do that on some random dude that they have charged for a crime that didn't exist. Why would the CIA director meet with Jeffrey Epstein?
STU: I don't know. I mean --
GLENN: That doesn't happen!
STU: Yeah. I would agree. It could be very well, they were looking at something. And there could be more.
Let's say. Prince Andrew, would be a pretty big thing for them to look at. We know, at least allegedly, he denies this. He was involved in some of this stuff. Right.
So, but -- and there could be five -- ten other names. Saudi Arabian kings.
GLENN: Right. Right.
STU: Who knows. I'm just saying, maybe it's not where we -- where the biggest version of it is.
GLENN: I think that would be great. Here's the only thing that I think we can walk away, we know to be true.
STU: Yeah, you're a jerk. I know what's coming. I'm going to say, I was involved in the list.
I'm not going to let you get away with it.
GLENN: You Stu was on the list.
JAMES: We see what's going on, Stu.